From a discussion in a Paltalk chatroom. I am Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb:

Paltalk: This is a G rated voice room intended for a General Audience including minors. Offensive language is not permitted.

Paltalk: Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb, welcome to the room Belief is Belief do you SEE.

KayHardy: welcome moshe aron

Valerie May Phillips: are we getting it though phil?

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: ty

Phil Monty: yes valerie

lori_2: hi moshe aron ben...

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Hi, Lori

Gene-sis: yes JD

devenroy: lol jd

Gene-sis: hi moshe

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Howdy, Gene

Valerie May Phillips: I see sometimes people want me to elaborate.

Gene-sis: yep

Valerie May Phillips: due to not understanding me

Valerie May Phillips: and I end up justifying myself

Gene-sis: i type break the circle.......

Phil Monty: intellectualisation...is a cool word

Gene-sis: hi truth

Truthseeker_38: hi

KayHardy: welcome truthseeker

Gene-sis: (kevin?)?

michael a_1: wc truthseeker

lori_2: hi truthseeker

devenroy: wc truth

Truthseeker_38: thanks

KayHardy: Valerie )))

Gene-sis: just like me )) valerie

Valerie May Phillips: lol

Phil Monty: yes sir

Valerie May Phillips: I don't like the mic today.

Valerie May Phillips: so, I am using it.

Valerie May Phillips: lol

devenroy: wc swan

SwanSongstress: hi all

SwanSongstress: ty dev

Gene-sis: swanSongSTRESS

michael a_1: hi swan

SwanSongstress: hi philllll

Koji JP: Swan, Ebbing ?

Gene-sis: Ebbing

devenroy: wc ebbing?

michael a_1: hi ebbing

KayHardy: www.selftransformation.org/ Edward Jones website which contains the glossary

Valerie May Phillips: lol......hi swanny

Ebbing_tide: g'day folks

KayHardy: welcome swansong and Ebbing

Ebbing_tide: swannnnnnnnnnnny

Valerie May Phillips: hi ebbing

SwanSongstress: hi michael and koji and gene]ebbingggggggggggggggggggg

SwanSongstress: ty kay

SwanSongstress: hi val

Ebbing_tide: hiya koji

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Kay, interesting. Is this room connected with Edward's work?

Koji JP: hi hi

lori_2: hi ebbing

Ebbing_tide: hiya dev

KayHardy: Yes Moshe

Ebbing_tide: hi michael

Ebbing_tide: hiya kay

devenroy: how r u ebbing?

Ebbing_tide: hi val

Valerie May Phillips: visitors

Koji JP: distortion = telling the lie

Gene-sis: AFK - Listening - bbl (maybe)

KayHardy: yes Koji

Ebbing_tide: hi lori

Ebbing_tide: great dev thanks

devenroy: lol

Phil Monty: thinking errors

Ebbing_tide: hiya phil

SwanSongstress: o mlord

Phil Monty: hi ebbs

devenroy: u need another glossary of words for it jd?

lori_2: hi swan

SwanSongstress: i dont jd

SwanSongstress: hi loriiii

fred_kent: afk

Gene-sis: jeffrey your looking ))

Gene-sis: bbl

Phil Monty: hi swanny

SwanSongstress: brb

Gene-sis: i am a liar

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: What is correct?

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Who determines it?

fred_kent: back

Valerie May Phillips: got to go.

Valerie May Phillips: bye

KayHardy: see you Valerie

michael a_1: bye valerie

Elliott_T: JD: Kay doesn't think

Ebbing_tide: hiya elliot

Phil Monty: Kay: from my conditioning

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: IMO, thinking *itself* is distortion (or distorts what exists - whatever that is)

KayHardy: Yes Moshe

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Nothing is thinking turned in on itself, i.e., rejected

Ebbing_tide: w/b dev

devenroy: ty

Phil Monty: can you explain that further Moshe?

Phil Monty: May*

Koji JP: there is time change tomorrow ? the turning to summer time ?

JD9587: already changed here koji

Koji JP: oh really, Jeff

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Phil, okay. If I think of something, then I think of something else, I can recognize the impermanence fo my thoughts

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: The thinking becomes nothing when it confronts itself

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: And dissolves

Elliott_T: yes

Ebbing_tide: that's what I see

Ebbing_tide: new definitions

Phil Monty: an experiment?...cool

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: There is no way to avoid being stuck in words. Even the *idea* of avoiding "stuck" is grammatical. Instead, one should, IMO, begin to face one's own limitations

Phil Monty: yes moshe

Ebbing_tide: I see all words can be played out many different ways

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Facing one's limitations -> no longer taking one's embeddedness in language too seriously

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: That, IMO, is freedom

KayHardy: welcome muppet

Ebbing_tide: not new

Ebbing_tide: old

KayHardy: ill answer on mic

Phil Monty: always???

JD9587: yes.. hear it live on phantomradio.co.uk you have been warned

Koji JP: when we get aware that we are stuck in language, we become free from language

Phil Monty: lol

JD9587: why let notricious on mic......

JD9587: ty

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Koji, yes - at least one has the insight to begin discovering freedom

Gene-sis: good question JD

Gene-sis: back

KayHardy: yes Koji and you are free then to look for yourself

Gene-sis: Koji....yes Kay

Ebbing_tide: yep

Ebbing_tide: hiya sea

michael a_1: hi seawnds

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Belief systems are linguistic - to be transcended

Seawnds: hi ya ebb

Seawnds: hi michael

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: through intentional contradiction

Gene-sis: don't even Mention differant laguages....

Gene-sis: wb deven

devenroy: ty

Gene-sis: yw

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: IMO, the way to become free from language, even while remaining in it, is through intentional contradiction

Koji JP: If we believe that we are not trapped in language, we keep being robots.

Gene-sis: yes PHIL

Ebbing_tide: yes phil

Ebbing_tide: yes

devenroy: language dont have any power to trap anyone

devenroy: its just like saying getting trapped by teddy bear

Phil Monty: ok

Koji JP: look at the glossary by self, and make action.

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Languages have no power, but we attribute power (in our minds) to languages by defining our experiences through them

Elliott_T: So why increase it?

Gene-sis: yes Kay - and not only in this room

KayHardy: Yes by believing in them Moshe

devenroy: yes elliot

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: By reifying them

Gene-sis: all over the planet

devenroy: exactly ebbing

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: The reification of language is the problem, IMO

Gene-sis: whats reification.....?

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: To reify is to treat something as real

Gene-sis: moshe

Gene-sis: ah. ty Moshe

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Intentional contradiction can combat reification, IMO

Ebbing_tide: yes through ones own experience

Gene-sis: afk - bbl - maybe (listening on speakers)

Phil Monty: Kay: logically or emotionally...or something else?

Ebbing_tide: words are pointers

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: language games - like Wittgenstein said

Gene-sis: yes Ebbing (also)

KayHardy: Ist that a yes or a no?

Phil Monty: Moshe: and Sipir and Wolfe????

fred_kent: bthoem

Phil Monty: sapir*

Gene-sis: words are not a game to me.... words Create every thing around me

devenroy: if u go that down then u can make another glossary for it

KayHardy: Yes Lillian the speaking of them

Gene-sis: yes Kay ))

devenroy: yes ebbing

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Words do not point to anything. People point to things. Words are the traps which lead us to believe that the objects being pointed to are real

Gene-sis: whoof whoof (BIG DOG?)

Phil Monty: by creating a commonality of interpretation of words..isn't that conditioning???

devenroy: not really

devenroy: u cannt get lost

Gene-sis: yes Ebbing

Ebbing_tide: yes phil, and we are all conditioned into language

Ebbing_tide: fine line

Gene-sis: absolutly so Kay Hardy ))

Gene-sis: as fine as a razor blade Ebbing : )

Ebbing_tide: kay looking for oneself one would be able to see the interpretation

Ebbing_tide: in the looking

Gene-sis: the line between life and death..... Ebbing ))

KayHardy: that is it Lillian

Ebbing_tide: lilsy?

Gene-sis: yes Jannett ?

Ebbing_tide: I don't see a word as a matter of life or death

Ebbing_tide: we all use language

Gene-sis: ok Ebby

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: If one says that words point to "things," isn't one then implying a direct connection between the two. If so, isn't being trapped permanent?

Elliott_T: brb

KayHardy: Its not about interpretation Devenroy

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: The trap comes from seeing the words as real

devenroy: just like word trying!

devenroy: yes

KayHardy: Yes Moshe the words arent real....what they point to may or may not be

Elliott_T: back

devenroy: words are real too isnt it moshe

KayHardy: wb Elliot

Phil Monty: IMO: it's great that we intreprete the same word differently......it means we are not robots???

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Kay, IMO, nothing we point to is real. Even if, in itself, it may have some existence, by pointing it, one fictionalizes it

Ebbing_tide: words are conditioning yes

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: devenroy, IMO, nothing we point to, and nothing used to point, is real

Gene-sis: yes KAY HARDY ))

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: I agree you are real, but when I point to you, I fictionalize you (impose my own expectations and views on you)

Phil Monty: Kay: if you are real...how can you be dead (as defined by Edward)????

Gene-sis: yes MOshe (unless we don't)

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Gene, or unless we constantly contradict our pointings

Elliott_T: that's the word game

Gene-sis: ?? didn't get that Moshe.....

Seawnds: that's life though

Gene-sis: contradict?

Ebbing_tide: if we took on onother interpretation would be robotic

Seawnds: we come from different cultures, different backgrounds, etc

Gene-sis: whats contradict......

Ebbing_tide: anothers

KayHardy: yes Ebbing...it isnt about interpretation

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Gene, I mean that language is just a game, and we should accept multiple language games - even contradictory ones - and use them

michael a_1: good nite everyone

Ebbing_tide: then the words is meaningless

Gene-sis: language is a game? (i don't see that)

KayHardy: Fred are you here?

Ebbing_tide: without interpretation kay

Seawnds: hi ya dev

Gene-sis: phone

KayHardy: Is it Ebbing?

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Gene, language is just a play on words

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: But I remember discussion this subject with Edward, and he always thought I went too far, but such is the bane of my existence. ?

Phil Monty: a cup has many interpretations or stories....that's great otherwise we would be robots...as devonroy suggested

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: *discussing

Gene-sis: done

Phil Monty: lol...Elliot

Ebbing_tide: could you speak with them on the phone??

Gene-sis: wb devenroy & Lillian

Phil Monty: lol

Gene-sis: auh........

Ebbing_tide: yes it is

Gene-sis: YES!!!!!

devenroy: but glossary is just that hardy

Ebbing_tide: it is thought

Gene-sis: Kay

Phil Monty: Kay: that was conditioned humour...you just used

Gene-sis: me also Kay

Gene-sis: am not even speaking )))

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: We come to see language as real, and then we order our experiences based on that language - usually entirely unaware that, with other language games, our experiences would be entirely different

Gene-sis: hahaha LOL

devenroy: yes...

Seawnds: how else would you communicate, ebb?

Gene-sis: <~~~SIGH (big sigh)

devenroy: lets play scrabble

SwanSongstress: back

devenroy: lol

SwanSongstress: yes ebb

Gene-sis: wb swan

KayHardy: wb swansong

devenroy: wb swan

Seawnds: hi ya swanny

devenroy: exactly ebbing

SwanSongstress: all of this verbal speaking and hearing is interpretive

SwanSongstress: hi seaaaa

KayHardy: thats the question to ask yourself Ebbing

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Words are not perceived. They are used

Gene-sis: OFF COURSE.......

Gene-sis: m Moshe.....

Seawnds: yes , there are very different senses of humor

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: m?

KayHardy: thats cause your nuts too Phil

Gene-sis: umm.... Moshe

Ebbing_tide: if we didn't interpret we could say gooolama glob as the interpretation is necussary

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Oh, okay. I thought you had something in mind with the "m"

annabdm: hey guys!good night

Ebbing_tide: isn't necessary

Gene-sis: was looking at what you typed Moshe

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: lol

devenroy: why to say it?

Ebbing_tide: robotic kay

devenroy: why to experiment on such thing?

SwanSongstress: not on edwards foundation kay

SwanSongstress: exactly dev

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Being robotic comes from taking words too seriously

Phil Monty: I do Kay.......sometimes it may take 5 minutes though..not a year

KayHardy: so you already know Ebbing

devenroy: its just like following bibilical terms

SwanSongstress: right phil

devenroy: its another bible

devenroy: lol@ebbing

devenroy: hahahahhaa

SwanSongstress: its possible to look at it , consider it, use it and discard it

Gene-sis: LOVE........ the most missused word on the planet today

SwanSongstress: misused

devenroy: thats another belief gene

Gene-sis: ty swan

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Everything is a mush of nothing. Words give the illusion of order

devenroy: 1

Ebbing_tide: great

Gene-sis: for correcting spelling - swanny ))

Phil Monty: adequately beautiful

devenroy: lol swan

devenroy: just to experiment*

KayHardy: The only Edwardian I ever met is you Swan ))))

Gene-sis: bibles, dusty here swan - as for doing IT..... i wonder : )

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: There is no such thing as "the Bible." The Bible is itself a reification of diverse languages used by many different authors

Phil Monty: I wanna become a Hardian...lol

Gene-sis: yes Kay

devenroy: swan never proposed to look into edwardian glossary hardy

KayHardy: $1,00000000.00 dollars Phil or a cd??

Phil Monty: lol

Ebbing_tide: yes swan it's a belief system one takes on

Gene-sis: is it possible to ACTUALY do IT?....... i wonder....

KayHardy: no need to be sorry swan

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: There are thousands of religions in the world. Why pick one out of those thousands and privilege it by trying it?

Gene-sis: Love....... again.......

Ebbing_tide: gene you can take any word and experience many different interpretations

Seawnds: ahh . .the Edwardian Bible

Ebbing_tide: experience

Gene-sis: Ebbing i have......... used to interpretate everything

SwanSongstress: im sorta proud of coining "Edwardian"

SwanSongstress: its become quite popular

SwanSongstress: i think that makes me special

Ebbing_tide: lilsy, are you interpreting my words?

SwanSongstress: ?

Gene-sis: now i Listen - if i hear i hear........ if i don't i don't........ Ebbing : )

devenroy: i also use it hardy

devenroy: ebbing too

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: The term Eduardian is used by other people to refer to an entirely different construct

Ebbing_tide: so how is it you hear lilsy?

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SwanSongstress: lol

Gene-sis: no Ebbing i am not - i am responding to YOU Ebbing : )

SwanSongstress: thats why i used all those verbs kay

devenroy: we say edwardian but that doesnt mean me ebbing and swan are edwardians

SwanSongstress: for YOU thats what its about kay

Ebbing_tide: gene then what am I saying?

Seawnds: so we are born "knowing"

love-ology: d a shower

Ebbing_tide: ooops lilsy

devenroy: wc love

love-ology: hiya

Ebbing_tide: naturally it would kay

love-ology: dev grabbed me lol

SwanSongstress: exactly kay....the way edward "speaks it" is plenty of reason to take it with a grain

Ebbing_tide: any interpretation can be seen if looked at hard enough

devenroy: yes u missed my angelic touch love

devenroy: lol

SwanSongstress: every word youre speaking is a word someone else "wrote" and created kay

love-ology: lol

devenroy: lol@elliott

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Glossaries are okay, as long as they are not taken seriously

SwanSongstress: lol

devenroy: hahahahaaa

KayHardy: Yes Moshe...not something to be believed in

Ebbing_tide: yes swan, almost all words are second hand

devenroy: nicely said

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: right

Seawnds: a religious fanatic . . an Edwardian fanatic . .lol

devenroy: lol yes seawns

SwanSongstress: and they are wonderful SECOND HAND ME DOWNS

JD9587: Kay..we need to get these people high

SwanSongstress: aint they?

KayHardy: maybe JD

JD9587: they are not comforming

SwanSongstress: JD we need to get kay high

JD9587: damn them!

KayHardy: they are JD conforming to conditioning

Ebbing_tide: yes

Gene-sis: ah..........nothingness........

Ebbing_tide: yes

Gene-sis: hehe

JD9587: dont worry Kay. we are transformed. they will come around in time

Seawnds: yes, how in the world do we escape reality

JD9587: papa Jones will save them

JD9587: he died 4 times

Seawnds: and how long can we stay in nothingness

JD9587: for you swan

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: I agree, Phil. However, I think one can approach it through intentional contradiction (as a discipline)

devenroy: wc reiki

Gene-sis: coming from there Phil .......

reikispirit: ty devenroy

Phil Monty: ok

JD9587: hello reiki

Seawnds: hi reiki

reikispirit: hello JD

JD9587: have you heard the good news?

Gene-sis: might be here anymoment now Phil : )

reikispirit: hello seawnds

devenroy: wc nina

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: For instance, I belong to about 30 different (very different) religions, and I actively practice several of them

reikispirit: hello everyone

devenroy: how r u nina

Gene-sis: hello PHIL!!!!!!!!

reikispirit: what good news JD?

nina_infinite: fine ty

devenroy: cool

JD9587: papa Jones died for you

Gene-sis: am here now Phil

Phil Monty: ebbing: once you use thought or language...we are being conditioned

reikispirit: lol JD not for me he didnt but for himself maybe

devenroy: we all?

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: The pluralism between conditioned and transformed is itself a linguistic trap

Gene-sis: yep Kay

Ebbing_tide: not a robot

JD9587: allow me to perform a reiki massage

devenroy: i m not

Gene-sis: YES KAY!!!!!!!!

Ebbing_tide: a robot is a belief

Phil Monty: Moshe: the other domain....is a paradox.....imo

reikispirit: no thanks JD I will stay fully clothed that is not what reiki is a massage...ahahaha

Ebbing_tide: we may act according to that of a robot, and yet we are not robots

Gene-sis: auh KAY HARDY I AM ))

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Phil, but even the use of the word "domain" is reification

devenroy: yes indded ebbing robot is belief

Gene-sis: yes Kay shut up ))))))))))

Gene-sis: hahaha LOL

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: We cannot avoid reification - but we can contradict it

JD9587: lol reiki. after speaking with andrea about it further, she may have combined reiki and massage as alternative treatments

KayHardy: okay we are all robots except for Devenroy

Phil Monty: yes moshe..I agree...I am restricted in the words I am conditioned by

Gene-sis: yes

Gene-sis: hahah LOL

reikispirit: ahahaha yep JD

JD9587: two different things being spoken about and she combined them me thinks'

KayHardy: welcome reiki....did I say that?

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: I would say that the restriction is taking the words as real. However, words themselves have no power

Koji JP: by actually speaking language, can we create energy ?

SwanSongstress: damn straight he does

Ebbing_tide: programming

devenroy: yes seawnds

Gene-sis: no i don't think so Seawnds

SwanSongstress: its CLASSIC conditioning

KayHardy: I do Koji

Koji JP: cool Kay

JD9587: interesting that they were talking about it at a workers compensation conference

KayHardy: terrible?

Phil Monty: Power is language..."Michael Fawcalt"...if we allow it to be

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: If we have Edwardian, does that mean we have an Edward I? ?

SwanSongstress: one example of the outlandish contradictions that give reason to take his dogma with a grain

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Phil, I am a Foucaultian

Seawnds: so . . . doesn't Edward condition those attending his room?

Phil Monty: Power = Transmitter + Receiver

reikispirit: yes some are being licensed through their states though it is required and if a massage therapist then they have to be licensed then doing reiki they have to as well...I am glad to see states requiring this to keep the rift raft out of reiki..

SwanSongstress: yep,sea

devenroy: yes indeed seawnds

devenroy: i give u an example for it

Seawnds: ty swanny . . you are so sensible . . . swanny and dev

devenroy: which is real too

Phil Monty: ok Moshe....I see that now

Gene-sis: yes Ebb...Edward uses the Paltalk Program.....

SwanSongstress: sensible is a horrible thing to be i n edwardianism, sea

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Edward is not a Foucaultian - though he comes close in some areas - which is why he and I have differed

Gene-sis: wb Fred

Seawnds: lol lol swanny

KayHardy: wb Fred with hat ?

devenroy: wb fred

Gene-sis: got ya Hat Fred

Phil Monty: yes Moshe...he talks about the 5 linguistic acts

SwanSongstress: hi mark

JD9587: night Kay

devenroy: let me interpret what phone saying "pick me up damn it"

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Yes

Gene-sis: Moshe - have added you to my pal list

KayHardy: see you JD

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: ty, Gene

devenroy: wc mark

SwanSongstress: lol dev

Gene-sis: yw

Gene-sis: yes KAY!!!!!!!!

SwanSongstress: you mean like use the words he prescribes, kay?

devenroy: u know alot hardy

Seawnds: ? i feel conditioning going on

devenroy: lol

Phil Monty: Freddie has a golf hat on

SwanSongstress: now THAT is called "justification" kay

SwanSongstress: (word of the day)

SwanSongstress: \justification for conditioning

SwanSongstress: lol

Koji JP: Thank you Kay.

Phil Monty: c'ya Kay...TC

Ebbing_tide: not just in that room, in life itself

Seawnds: hi ya Fred

devenroy: i m next ebbing

KayHardy: Goodnight everyone ?

Seawnds: ahh . . the 19th hole, eh

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Good night, Kay

devenroy: goodnight hardy

Gene-sis: nite Love

Ebbing_tide: okay dev

Gene-sis: Kay love

Seawnds: yes dev

Seawnds: exactly

Seawnds: my point

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Several people in this room would know me by my other nic

Seawnds: yes, you are being "conditioned"

reikispirit: there is not conditioning in there devenroy...

Seawnds: that's the feeling i get . . .

Gene-sis: oooooooooh DEVEN??? you need to be "LET BE???

reikispirit: he doesnt say to follow him or even believe what he says

devenroy: then why dot me for responding text?

devenroy: lol

Seawnds: yes, Ebb . . .now you start saying "perfect"

Seawnds: you've been "conditioned" that way

Seawnds: good point, ebb

SwanSongstress: and the fact is, those who DO NOT succumb to his conditioning, use his words, not use words he doesnt, etc, is labelled as one who is "dead" and someone who "already knows everything" etc etc

boris badinov: good evening comrads

reikispirit: I dont know devenroy that is something you have toi speak with him about

devenroy: yes seawnds

devenroy: thats why i use perfect* like this

devenroy: lol

Seawnds: exactly swanny

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: All discourses, or texts, are driven by power. Finding that speakers/writers wish to attach power to their words should not be surprising

devenroy: he is too old to listen reiki

SwanSongstress: change of color again

SwanSongstress: everybody copies me

SwanSongstress: lol

devenroy: wc hidden

Seawnds: I'd like Phil's read on this

Gene-sis: ty All - see ya later maybe (unless i don't) Take care - perfect life to All

SwanSongstress: gene

boris badinov: copykat comrad

SwanSongstress: another example

Ebbing_tide: yes programming

SwanSongstress: the way she said goodbye is copied

Ebbing_tide: lol

fred_kent: lol

Seawnds: so a room that detests condition is actually conditioning

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Word Perfect has been supplanted by Microsoft Word ?

SwanSongstress: its robotic to a point of embarrassment

Seawnds: conditioning actually

SwanSongstress: yes me too phil

boris badinov: if you were not conditioned swan you wouldnt come into this room?

Ebbing_tide: yes it's a belief

Ebbing_tide: if it wasn't a belief it wouldn't be stated

Seawnds: It's Edward's belief that there's no love in the world

Seawnds: isn't that a belief

Ebbing_tide: yes

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Yes, we cannot escape beliefs. We can only deconstruct them. That is another difference I had with Edward

Ebbing_tide: yes

Seawnds: i agree . . .beliefs can't be escaped

boris badinov: is this all about you moshe?

Ebbing_tide: yes the moment it is labeled it is no longer

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Boris, maybe or maybe not. What do you think?

boris badinov: me me me i i i i thats all your hear no one is conditioned here

Ebbing_tide: see the conditioning and use it rather than being stuck in it

SwanSongstress: boris why dont you give the combat a rest and hear phil

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Boris, I do not pretend to be a selfless person

SwanSongstress: he is speaking of transformation

Seawnds: but Edward says don't use "how" . .

Seawnds: the word how

SwanSongstress: another restriction sea

devenroy: why not to be here and now

reikispirit: do you do self hypnosis phil?

SwanSongstress: for reasons we dont know

devenroy: why to be there?

SwanSongstress: lol

Seawnds: yes

boris badinov: whats wrong swan couldnt answer my question to you?>

devenroy: somewhere over the rainbow

boris badinov: scroll back swan

SwanSongstress: boris i will answer any interesting question you offer

SwanSongstress: so get with the program

boris badinov: scroll back then swanny

SwanSongstress: that wasnt interesting boris and your obvious fight-seeking is boring too

boris badinov: thats a poor way to avoid a question songstree

Ebbing_tide: phil, the next thought you have see where it is taking you

SwanSongstress: hi nlight

SwanSongstress: light, even

LIGHT 101: hi swan

LIGHT 101: ty deven

Ebbing_tide: hiya light

LIGHT 101: hey ebbing

devenroy: yes seawnds

SwanSongstress: me too sea

devenroy: how r u light

boris badinov: your conditioned more than anyone seawinds

Ebbing_tide: doesn't mane any of that stops sea

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: One can think while not taking it seriously - not being attached to it as real

Ebbing_tide: mean

boris badinov: boring

LIGHT 101: good ty deven

devenroy: good

Phil Monty: bliss is something

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Bliss is the illusion of something, IMO

reikispirit: bliss is different from what Edward speaks of

Ebbing_tide: the removal of the illusion

Ebbing_tide: yes phil

love-ology: have to go to work , have a good day/ night all

Seawnds: lol

boris badinov: cat got your tongue swan

LIGHT 101: i dont see it so much as the removal, rather, the observation of reactions to aspects of conditioning

boris badinov: no good asking you questions you cant answer swan

Seawnds: interesting . . so maybe thoughts are fast . . . they are there even beyond the formation of words . . .but is there really anything before thought?

Phil Monty: reiki: I think Edward speaks of a place called death...not physically though

boris badinov: ?ive got your mo swan

reikispirit: yes phil ever been in sichort state?

LIGHT 101: it is the preconceived thoughts which often generate reactions

Phil Monty: not that I can recall...reiki

fred_kent: well spoken Ebb

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Death, IMO, is self-abnegation

Ebbing_tide: ty fred

Phil Monty: Reiki: psychotic*....lol

Ebbing_tide: fear that isn'

Ebbing_tide: t real

Phil Monty: what is a sichort state?

Ebbing_tide: that's our conditioning that has us trapped

boris badinov: ask swan

reikispirit: that is like a death the deepest form of hypnosis you feel nothing and you are not aware it is almost like being asleep but you are not and heart rate slows way down

Phil Monty: ok

LIGHT 101: every knock at the door does not generate fear

Seawnds: is fear necessarily undesirable

Seawnds: maybe there could be a reason to fear

LIGHT 101: fear of what

Phil Monty: Reiki: however even a deep state of hypnosis is a state..which is something...yeah?

boris badinov: it is not fear it is awareness?

Seawnds: so our mind looks at possibilities . . for our survival

reikispirit: it is a label we give it phil...lol

LIGHT 101: yep ebbing....

reikispirit: but it is very real

Phil Monty: yes ebbing

Ebbing_tide: ?

boris badinov: knowing the thoughts of others?

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: There is really no such condition as a deep state of hypnosis. That is a language game promoted by the media. Hypnosis is nothing more than suggestibility. We are, to an extent, continually hypnotized

boris badinov: not hypnotized conditioned

reikispirit: well moshe I have had surgery with it so it is more than what the media puts out they lie alot..

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Conditioning operates through suggestibility ("hypnosis")

boris badinov: exactly

Phil Monty: Moshe: perhaps not a language game as defined by Witgenstein.....but more a story we have created based on conditioning

LIGHT 101: i have hundreds of redbacks here, however, i dont fear them

boris badinov: get the point moshe

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Reiki, yes, that is similar to biofeedback

Seawnds: that is a phobia . .and ungrounded fear

devenroy: yes seawnds

reikispirit: and hypnotherapy can do away with conditioning as well

Seawnds: as opposed to fears that may be justified

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Phil, I would suggest that the stories we tell *are* our conditioning or socialization. However, I don't think that Wittgenstein would disagree

boris badinov: exactly moshe

reikispirit: no Moshe as you are not there just like what anathesia does you feel nothing,

Phil Monty: ok....Witgenstein was a beery old swine....lol

boris badinov: moshe is right

Seawnds: exactly dev

Ebbing_tide: you act immediately in the now

Ebbing_tide: you don't have time to think

devenroy: cool yes

Phil Monty: Ebbs: how long does thinking take?

boris badinov: moshe swan songstress is a perfect example of your analogy

LIGHT 101: brb

Ebbing_tide: we are always thinking phil

devenroy: lol seawnds

Phil Monty: yes ebing

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Thinking is the definition of an ego-state, IMO.

devenroy: yeah

boris badinov: correct moshe

Ebbing_tide: yes mosh

boris badinov: are you ever wrong moshe?

Phil Monty: Moshe: imo..the ego state is a metaphor...which is open to interpretation

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Boris, only on alternate Thursdays

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Phil, all words are, IMO, metaphorical

Seawnds: yes . . .and you see the possibilies of going too fast

devenroy: dog says "shut up"

boris badinov: so in between you have no ego moshe

devenroy: ?

fred_kent: lol dev

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Boris, I detect a fairly significant ego in myself

Seawnds: no, Ebb

Seawnds: sorry , i don't grasp the difference

boris badinov: so do i as i do swan

Phil Monty: yes Moshe.......I agree....all words are open for interpretation, therefore a metahor

Seawnds: deja vu . . . having already seen

boris badinov: significant

boris badinov: currymuncher

Seawnds: yes

devenroy: yes.... look into dogs eyes and shake ur tail

devenroy: joking

boris badinov: you already do ebbing

boris badinov: its not allusion ebbing

devenroy: yes seawnds

boris badinov: awareness ebbing

Ebbing_tide: we all live in a paronoid state without realizing it

Phil Monty: Ebbing for me it is about living in the NOW, but visiting the future and the past....whilst "being"

devenroy: not really ebbing

boris badinov: bullshit ebb

boris badinov: if you live in the now you cant expect to live in the future ebbing

Ebbing_tide: yes phil, same, without being trapped in the illusion of what is

Phil Monty: yes

Ebbing_tide: boris in the now I can plan my day out

Ebbing_tide: and yet there is no trap to it

boris badinov: but when you plan your looking to the future arent you ebb?

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: or buy a good b-b gun

Ebbing_tide: boris there is only now

boris badinov: you didnt answer the question ebb

LIGHT 101: if i believed the news as presented in the media, i would not be flying in a couple of weeks

Seawnds: yes . . .there's phobia and paranoia . . .but also a legitimate looking ahead and thinking about possibilities

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Hey, dogs have to eat, too

devenroy: lol moshe

devenroy: hahahahaha

LIGHT 101: fear would take tis hold and i would hibernate

JD9587: yes light

LIGHT 101: sea, yes i see your point

boris badinov: but you said you were pplanning the rest of the day thats the futureisnt it?

Seawnds: ty light

Phil Monty: Yes Ebbing...........I hate it when I agree with you

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Hiya, Light. (I am Mark/dialectix, btw)

boris badinov: crap ebb

LIGHT 101: however this is a reasoned response, rather than a paranoid response

devenroy: hey dialectix long time no see

LIGHT 101: hey dial ?

fred_kent: lol phil , does you good!!

devenroy: how are u man

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Yeah, I know

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Not half bad, u?

boris badinov: tell her moshe

Seawnds: you bring the past with you as you go into your moment

devenroy: not half good moshe

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: tell her what?

boris badinov: ebb this is crap

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: devenroy, then the other half is what is to be focused on

Phil Monty: Ebbing: can you define "NOW"

devenroy: yeah i also see it like that moshe

boris badinov: ?

boris badinov: lol

LIGHT 101: it all depends what your previous thoughts are....if u have an ingrained fear which is paramount in your thinking process, then u will be more reluctant to answer the door

LIGHT 101: ?

LIGHT 101: brb

devenroy: dogs wants to go to pee

boris badinov: the past makes us strong for the future seawinds

Phil Monty: the past is our conditioning, our schema

LIGHT 101: i have been held up by masked gunmen who entered my home....yet....i leave my doors open.....

LIGHT 101: lol

LIGHT 101: go figure

reikispirit: that had to be tramatic for you seawnds

devenroy: lol@seawnds

devenroy: yes

boris badinov: unless you become a monk seawinds

Seawnds: i was never really mugged though, reiki . . lol

Seawnds: though i do mug in the mirror sometimes

reikispirit: ahahaha

reikispirit: then why think that way when you answer the door..

boris badinov: the shaolin will lend you a robe seawinds

boris badinov: phil monty arent you planning for the future?

Phil Monty: yes boris...for sure

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: IMO, past, present ("now"), and the future are all language games. None of them exist

boris badinov: ?

boris badinov: ?

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Nothing exists anywhere

reikispirit: like right now I could be setting goals for the future but I work in the now towards them

boris badinov: ?

devenroy: lol moshe

Ebbing_tide: phone

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: IMO, if a thing exists, it exists, but how can it exist in an abstraction?

boris badinov: ?

Phil Monty: brb...George is drinking out of the toilet bowl...better give him some water

reikispirit: ahahaha phil

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: lol

devenroy: george bush?

boris badinov: phil is conserving water and taking it out on his dog

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Yeah, that I would believe

boris badinov: is that why youre all funny

devenroy: nice

Seawnds: hmm . . .try new jersey

Seawnds: lol

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Just add plenty of ice to water, and even the most disgusting water will be tolerable

Phil Monty: lol

boris badinov: smelcahol

LIGHT 101: we dont have much water here right now.....the water storage is down to 3% capacity....sure tastes muddy

devenroy: if beer is water

LIGHT 101: so we drink bottled water

Phil Monty: where are you from Light?

devenroy: yes

LIGHT 101: aus

Phil Monty: ok

boris badinov: jd has blown up like a goldfish

Phil Monty: where in Aus?

LIGHT 101: nsw

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: or prostate

LIGHT 101: on the border

Phil Monty: Albury?

LIGHT 101: u got it

LIGHT 101: lol

Phil Monty: lol

LIGHT 101: now how did u get that from.....on the border...lol

LIGHT 101: ?

Phil Monty: the famous border town is Albury/Wondonga

boris badinov: i will get bracks onto phil

Phil Monty: wodonga*

boris badinov: and the rspca

devenroy: wc cs

CreativeSilence: hi

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: CreativeSilence, sounds like a Quaker name

boris badinov: phil does your dog piss into the toliet bowl as well?

Phil Monty: boris: working on that

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: I want to see a dog sit on the toilet like a normal human being

boris badinov: phils working on that too

boris badinov: teach him to piss on your enemies phil

Ebbing_tide: bye folks, daughter has arrived

boris badinov: cats are selfish comrad

devenroy: bye ebbing

Phil Monty: c'ya ebbing

reikispirit: lol

CreativeSilence: i dictate the words and my dog types it ...if he is not doing the dishes

boris badinov: what does moew mean reiki?

reikispirit: feed me

Phil Monty: lol

boris badinov: LOL

Phil Monty: this conversation is too dangerous

Seawnds: lol@creative

CreativeSilence: lol

Seawnds: dogs are from mars . . .cats are from venus

Phil Monty: lol

Seawnds: . . . or is that men and women

reikispirit: lol

reikispirit: other way around seawnds...lol

devenroy: if man are like dogs the women are pillars

reikispirit: well I am a dog then...lol

devenroy: on which dog pees

boris badinov: REIKI FEEDS HER CAT THE NEIGBOURS DOGS

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Precisely. I thoroughly reject sex and gender as objective realities

Seawnds: actually . . i'm going to play with my doll now

boris badinov: THE LATEX ONE

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: However, what we call men are often socialized to be like cats (avoidant). What we call call women are often socialized to be more like dogs (close and intimate).

Seawnds: interesting moshe

reikispirit: it is about learning how to communicate with the opposite sex and see the difference to understand them.

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Seawnds, just stream of consciousness ?

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: The idea of two sexes is a popular fiction

reikispirit: read that book some 22 yrs ago

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Some scholars say there are 5 sexes

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: other scholars say there is only one sex

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: It is all language games

Seawnds: i thought so!

Seawnds: lol

Seawnds: women seem to be so much more verbal

Seawnds: so that's why i can't walk and chew gum

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: We see things according to the questions we ask

reikispirit: yes and more intuitive

reikispirit: that is what I have observed

reikispirit: and what I have experienced as well being female

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: I disagree with the reification of women or men

reikispirit: they can sense things more

CreativeSilence: lol

reikispirit: have a knowing of things

reikispirit: ahahaha seawnds

Phil Monty: your a suck...seawnds...lol

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: So-called women are taught to ask certain questions. They then see things according to those questions.

CreativeSilence: because she put it there

CreativeSilence: lol

devenroy: they take it with them

devenroy: lol yes

Moshe Aron ben Hesh Loeb: Because they are raised to ask different questions than so-called men

reikispirit: that cheese is hiding from you tellingyou to stay away from it not good for you...lol

CreativeSilence: well i rather have a women eyeball me than a man

posted at 01:09:57 AM by Dr. Mark A. Foster